Hidden Costs of an Inground Pool: 7 Expenses Homeowners Miss

Hidden Costs of an Inground Pool: 7 Expenses Homeowners Miss

The Pool Guides Podcast – by River Pools

Guide: Rebecca "Becky" Martinez, Director of Intelligence, River Pools Virginia Host: Cristian Shirilla

Becky: They thought that their fence was their property line. It indeed was not. And so a good portion of their patio was actually on the neighbor's property.

Introduction

Cristian: Hello friends, Cristian here with The Pool Guides Podcast, a show that helps you gather all of the information you need to make well informed decisions throughout the process of having a pool installed in your backyard.

For today's episode, we're going to be talking about hidden costs. And they're not so much hidden as they are missed. They're missed because of a gap in the knowledge and experience between homeowners and the builder.

It's not uncommon. In fact, it's probably more common than not. Inground pool projects these days are going to land somewhere between $100,000 and $200,000 depending on the project, the design, the complexity, all of the things. But to go through the entire process and time and time again discover something that you don't know, well, that can be quite frustrating.

Today's guide is Rebecca Martinez. She's the Director of Intelligence at River Pools Virginia. Yes, the title is real. And yes, it's very fitting, because Becky has been in the industry for 20 years now, and she's had her hands on the logistics of more than 1,000 backyard pool installations. She's seen these hidden or missed costs catch people off guard many, many times throughout her career.

Listen, we don't know what we don't know. Today's episode is designed to help you discover as many of those things as possible before you break ground on a pool in your backyard.

Meet Becky Martinez

Cristian: I think you're a good guide for the show for this particular episode. Because of those 20 years of experience in the industry, despite being 26.

Becky: I know, right? How do I do it?

Cristian: You've actually been in the industry way longer than I have. And you started as a teenager in high school, really just working part time here at River Pools. It was originally called River Pools, now River Pools Virginia. But you worked in the store and did sales and cleaned bathrooms.

Becky: Water tests. Literally.

Cristian: You've literally done all the things.

Becky: One twenty on a forklift.

Cristian: Oh man. And now, what is your title now? What is your role with the company?

Becky: I am told my official title is Director of Intelligence.

Cristian: That sounds very official. So just talk us through what you do today, because this is far from just manning the storefront.

Becky: Yeah. I guess I just kind of weasel my way into looking at the big picture from start to finish, and fill all the holes, and put all the hands together, and fill the gaps wherever I can, and make sure things are running along. Like oiling the machine, kind of.

Cristian: And so your role is tied exclusively to installation. How many pools would you say you have in your career had your hands in on the installation side of things? Planning, execution, logistics.

Becky: Over a thousand.

Cristian: Over a thousand pools. I was guessing that as well. I was trying to add up how many pools Jason had installed himself one day, and I couldn't come up with a number. It's well beyond, probably two thousand, because he's helped so many other people. But I knew you had to be north of a thousand pools.

Cristian: So 20 years in the industry. She started out doing water tests, cleaning the bathroom at River Pools Virginia, really at the very beginning. And now, all these years later, more than 1,000 installations. On the show today.

Hidden Cost 1: Restoring Your Yard After the Crews Leave

Cristian: The first topic we're going to discuss is the most common, I would say. After the crews leave, your pool is in and full of water. But what about all of the restoration needed to put your property back together the way you would like it? The hardscaping may be done, the new flower beds might be in. But what about the rest of the grass and all of the areas that were involved or necessary for construction to be completed?

Cristian: So that sets up the conversation today really well, because I want to talk about and get your thoughts on some of the hidden costs with pool installation. When a homeowner goes to buy a pool, the internet is full of information, their pool builder is full of information. Hopefully for the good, mostly for the good, but sometimes things are omitted. I don't think by choice. I don't think they're trying to swindle anybody.

Becky: Not at all.

Cristian: But I think things can easily be overlooked when you talk about a project of this magnitude. On the smaller end, probably somewhere in the $50,000 to $70,000 range, but more than likely you're at $100,000 or north for your everyday pool project. And then certainly the sky's the limit. But things could go missing in planning, missing in translation, and catch homeowners off guard. Do you see this?

Becky: Or just not visible. You're thinking about us coming in and digging up your backyard and putting the pool in, but sometimes not everybody thinks about what happens after that. The aftermath of what we leave, coming back in to restore that, coming back out and putting sod in and all these things, or bringing topsoil in. So we kind of leave it a little rough. Just restoring those things. If your only access was the driveway and the driveway gets beat up a little bit, restoring your driveway. Just those restorative measures, I think.

Other things that kind of go unseen, that we have no foresight on really until we start digging, are lines that weren't marked properly. Or abandoned things that nobody knows is there, like abandoned wells and stuff like that. Hitting rock, stuff like that. Sometimes you have an idea, but not all the time. Those things can add up kind of quickly when you run into them.

Cristian: And just clarify this for me. What brought this on was you talking about what River Pools Virginia does, like how you leave the site, where your scope of work stops on the contract. You guys leave it at a rough grade, is the term you use. Some contractors, do they go beyond that? Do they offer sod packages typically, or is that something to ask about or at least just be aware of?

Becky: It's something to ask or be aware of, most definitely. There's not many that I know of that include all of that. The landscaping and everything. And it really just depends, right? Some customers just want to bring some topsoil in and throw some seed and straw on it and call it a day. Others want river rock, plants, a very full landscaping package like our pool park. It just depends what you want to do.

Hidden Cost 2: The Plat, Easements, Setbacks, and RPAs

Cristian: The next topic we'll discuss is really around one critical document. It's the piece of paper that actually says where your pool can be installed. And without it, you might have the expense of having your pool installed twice.

Cristian: So let's talk about the very beginning of the project. Before you sign the dotted line, you need to know where everything is on your property. How do you know that, and what surprises can bite you if you don't have this one document in the very beginning?

Becky: So you're talking about a plat.

Cristian: I am.

Becky: A plat showing the home and the property lines is very, very, very important. Just to know where everything is, and to know that we're legally installing a pool where it's allowed to go. I'll say a lot of times people think that their fence line is their property line. That's not always the case. We've seen that not be the case a couple of times before. So it's always good. I know not everybody has that document, but you can usually find one, or get a survey if you have to, just to make sure that it's all kosher from the get go.

Cristian: How long does that take typically?

Becky: To get a survey? It really depends on your locality and who you hire to do it. Of course there's going to be many people in your area that can do that. Some people are more busy than others, some people are more expensive than others.

Cristian: So a couple of months?

Becky: I would say a couple of months, definitely.

Cristian: And you're probably speaking from experience, having seen customers have things delayed in the beginning, having to get that survey so that they have the official plat. So what else besides the home, or any permanent structure rather, is noted on the plat? What else is noted on there that's important for their pool project?

Becky: Any easements, RPAs, protection areas, places where you're not supposed to be doing any construction. And some people are surprised to find that those can cause issues with where they thought they could put their pool. You can petition, depending on your locality, you can petition to work in those areas, but that process is not a normal permitting process. That can be a whole other step, and can add months to that process as well.

Cristian: So the RPA, resource protection area, is that right?

Becky: Right.

Cristian: It's definitely a significant component of a project for a lot of folks, particularly here on the East Coast in Virginia. We're in a coastal area, and so they like to preserve the marshes and the estuaries and things like that. I don't know if that necessarily applies coast to coast for folks out there in the rest of the country, but it's definitely a big thing here on the East Coast.

So you started to smirk as you were talking about those setbacks and those RPAs. You have a story in mind where, if the homeowner had only known beforehand.

Becky: Not anyone in particular, but usually when we get jobs that have those, a lot of customers will say, I'll just go to the county and they'll just make an exception. And then it becomes this long drawn out thing. Sometimes you have to take this in front of a specific board that only meets a specific time of the month, et cetera and so forth. It is a very involved process. So much so that even if they do give you the exception, after we install the pool, they want to make you pay a surveyor to come back out and make sure that you put it where you said, so that you can't say, yeah, yeah, we'll play by your rules, and then not do it. So it's just a very involved process.

Cristian: I would consider that a hidden expense. Even if you know you have to apply, all of the things that that locality's process involves or requires could be pretty in depth and very, very time consuming. Have you seen something like that derail a project timeline wise more than three months?

Becky: Oh, more than three months? Yeah, absolutely it can. Six months. I've seen six months. Sometimes even a year, depending on what it is.

Cristian: Jeez.

As-Built Plans, Septic Systems, and Wells

Cristian: Okay, so this is really about having the plat and understanding where on your property a pool can go, how big a pool can be, because it's got to be a certain distance off of the house or any septic systems or any public utilities. All of those things would be marked on the plat.

Becky: The septic system and the wells are sometimes not always on the plat. But if you get what's called an as-built, the as-built can show you where those things are. A lot of customers think that they know exactly where they are, but they're not always exactly where they think they are. So having an as-built is also kind of important, if you have those things in the yard in the area where you're installing the pool. So you can have the proper setbacks.

Cristian: And so if you don't have an as-built, then you're sort of exposed to discovering things underground that you didn't know were there. Particularly if you bought a home that you didn't build. So you're just not familiar with what's underground.

Becky: One of our localities, if there's not one, they make you have what they call a SAP report. You have to hire a septic company to come out and locate all of the components and submit a drawing so that you have that to show. And put it on your drawing that you submit. They actually want a septic company to come out and confirm the location of all the components of the septic system, so that you can confirm. That's not all localities, but there are a few localities in Virginia that do that.

Before you fall in love with a design, you want to know all of those things first. Because the last thing you want to do is make a design and fall in love with it, and then realize actually you can't have that. Now it has to go over here. You can't have this much pool or patio.

The Fence That Was Not the Property Line

Cristian: Have you seen instances where something was installed and then checked by the locality, and they had to pull patio back up or move the pool after the fact?

Becky: There was no plat. This particular locality didn't require a plat. You could just do a GIS or whatever they have on their system. They thought that their fence was their property line. It indeed was not. And so a good portion of their patio was actually on the neighbor's property. So they had to go through this big long thing. Now that was on the customer, because they signed off on it. They said, I know I don't have a plat, we can use the GIS since the county doesn't require it. But they had to go through this process where they basically moved their property line. They had to buy some of the property from the neighbor. Now if that neighbor hadn't been nice about it, they wouldn't have gotten away that easy. They would have had to take that up another way.

Cristian: So the homeowner was rolling the dice there on where the property line was. The locality did not require a plat for the building permit, so the homeowner was basically running off of what they thought.

Becky: Right.

Cristian: Gosh.

Becky: All of these reasons are why we maintain, even if your locality says I don't need a plat, you can draw it on our GIS, which is like a satellite mapping system, if we can get that plat, it's very important. If not, then we do have them sign our waiver, but it's very few and far between that we allow that, only for those reasons.

Cristian: So you really want to be certain you have a copy of the official plat for your property. Again, it defines all of the property lines, easements, and setbacks that define where your pool can reside on your property. And without it, you run the risk of being challenged later and having to move your pool.

Hidden Cost 3: Where Does All the Dirt Go?

Cristian: But let's assume you have the plat and you know exactly where your pool can and is going to go on your property. But what happens to all of that dirt? And why does this process catch some homeowners off guard?

Cristian: When you dig a pool, there's a lot of dirt. So what do you do with the dirt? How does that as a category catch people off guard?

Becky: It surprises people every time, how much dirt came out of the hole. It's like, that much dirt? Yes, that much dirt. So if you really don't have anywhere where you can put it on your lot, and we always keep some of it to do the rough grade after, but if there's not really anywhere on site to keep it, it's got to be removed. And so that's an additional cost, and it adds time to the install. Depending on where we can get rid of the dirt, the turnaround time, how far the driver has to go to dump it, is there a fee to dump it. If there's a place on site to stockpile it in the meantime so that you can keep working, or if it's dig a little bit, load the truck, and then have to wait for the truck to come back to keep digging. It can extend time and money.

Cristian: And does this one catch most homeowners off guard?

Becky: I think it's really hard for them to accept how much it is.

Cristian: How much meaning the dirt, or how much meaning the cost?

Becky: How much the dirt, and the fact that we actually have to pay to get rid of it. Because it's not, quote unquote, in the base package. It's just dirt. And so it's got to be an extra line item. It's not part of installing your pool, unless you can keep the dirt there. If you keep the dirt there somewhere, great. But if we have to pay drivers and dump trucks and a location to take the dirt, there's an expense. And an extra day for the job, because it usually always means another day.

Cristian: And I would tell people, because I think I've done a couple of videos on just the amount of dirt that comes out in one form or fashion. It really is. If you were to take your fiberglass pool and look at it above ground, it's almost twice that. Because the dirt somehow fluffs up when it comes out of the ground. It's no longer compacted. And so it really appears to be twice the size of your pool, and it takes up a lot of space on the property, and logistically can create some surprises. And then also, you're going to incur more expense as the homeowner.

Land Disturbance Permits and Silt Fencing

Becky: There's also more expenses even if you have somewhere to keep the dirt, if you're in a particular locality that really cares about erosion and land disturbance and that kind of thing. We've had some customers in specific localities who wanted to keep the dirt, but the county said no, you can't, because that is included in the footprint of your work area. And some counties, you only have a specific amount of square footage that you can disturb. And so we have had a couple of cases where they wanted to keep the dirt but literally couldn't because of the county. Other counties are like, yeah, you can keep it, but you have to install silt fencing. And then maintaining that silt fence the correct way, especially throughout the project.

Cristian: Here in Virginia, I think most localities require a land disturbance permit. So that's what you're referring to, how many square feet you can disturb on the property. And you're saying just by putting dirt in a section of your property, that itself is considered a disturbance.

Becky: A disturbance, correct.

Cristian: Wow. Jeez. Okay.

Becky: And just for perspective, if you were putting in a large pool, the turnaround time for the truck driver is, I don't know, an hour, two hours. More depending. Once you go up north and you're in the city and stuff, it's harder to get rid of it. It's harder to find somewhere that will take it. So then you have to go farther. And I've been on job sites where it's added a couple of days just to get the dirt out and get the property situated to put the pool in. Especially if you take a project, I can remember a handful of projects where we were taking between fifteen and twenty loads of dirt out.

Cristian: Wow.

Becky: Not just because of the pool, but because of all the retaining walls and everything else that was going on with the project.

Cristian: So the whole backyard.

Becky: Right. Any excavation that we're having to do.

Cristian: Or even the size of the truck. If the access to your property is constrained somehow, it might need a smaller truck, and that's more loads.

Becky: Exactly. So many things go into it.

Cristian: All right. Well, I think we've hit this one pretty good. Just understanding, I guess to really prepare yourself, it would be good to be on site with the install team, the project coordinator, project manager, somebody who understands equipment and what's actually needed and can logistically map out what this is going to look like for your property and how it might affect your project's bottom line.

So it's not the fact that the dirt comes out of the hole. It's how much dirt comes out of the hole, and the expense necessary to have the dirt removed if it can't stay on your property.

Hidden Cost 4: Patio, Landscaping, and Drainage

Cristian: For this next topic, let's assume that your project cost $150,000. If you were to look through the itemized details of the plan, you might be surprised to find that the pool is not the significant portion of the total budget. And there's one item in there in particular that should be written down as to who is going to be in charge of it. Because if you don't define ownership of this one piece of planning, you could have real problems soon after installation is complete.

Cristian: Let's talk about the space around the pool. I'm talking patio, landscaping, drainage in particular. Is the patio included in the base package, or is that something separate?

Becky: No. It's always separate. Everything is a la carte, right? Because every pool project we do is different, so it's got to kind of be a la carte. There's so many different materials. You don't have to use concrete. You can do any other type of patio. Everything is separate.

As far as drainage, is that where you're going next?

Cristian: Well, I think drainage is a big one, because I have seen impact in several ways on projects. But talk through what's your warning to folks.

Becky: Always ask about drainage. Always, always, always.

Cristian: Tell us why.

Becky: Because it can cause a lot of issues. I know a lot of folks will just contract the pool company to do the pool, and then they kind of sign themselves up as their own general contractor. And they're going to use some other company for patio and some other company for this. But when you do that, if you don't take into account drainage and ask somebody at some point about the drainage, then suddenly it becomes nobody's responsibility.

Cristian: And the drainage is what? What are we draining?

Becky: The water. Rainwater.

Cristian: Rainwater. Okay.

Becky: It's going to rain, it's coming off your roof, it's got to go somewhere.

Cristian: Exactly.

Becky: And so starting with the pool install, where is the pool stopping the water when it comes off of your house and going to the yard, from the rough grade to the patio, and how it's going to go under the patio. If you have a basement especially, you have to take into account basement drainage and that kind of thing. Because when you're putting a pool in, the next time it rains, when you have a good rainstorm, go out and watch where the water goes. You're going to put a pool in, you are going to change that path for water to flow completely.

Cristian: And what you're saying is that you must account for that.

Becky: Because you don't want the water going back to your basement. You don't want the water going over to your neighbor's property. It's got to go where it should go. The patio has to have enough fall in the right direction. So it's going away from the pool and not into the pool, and going in the general direction that you want it to go.

Cristian: And most frequently you see people making mistakes when they are assuming the role of general contractor themselves.

Becky: Yes.

Cristian: And they try to piece it apart, but they don't have the experience to know, I've got to coordinate this topic between three or four different contractors, the pool builder being one of them. So your recommendation is to hire an all in one company?

Becky: Or at least, that's hard to say, because not everybody's going to want to do that. But in my mind, if I'm not a full on contractor and don't understand all of those concepts, I'm going to want somebody that I can trust to handle all that for me. Because it's a large investment. It's not a pool we're grabbing from Walmart.

Cristian: Yeah, exactly. So let's say that all of the drainage has been planned for, but you get a pop up storm right after install is complete, like before you have grass back. What happens?

Becky: So you can't automatically assume that you have a drainage issue if that happens. If everything is still fresh dirt and we just get an all out downpour, you're going to have muddy spots all over. It's not going to drain like it's going to once you establish grass and have all your landscaping done. As long as everything is graded properly and the project is done. Say your pool is in and you need a retaining wall and the retaining wall hasn't been done yet or something, that's going to go into the pool. We've had that happen maybe once or twice, way back in the past.

Cristian: How do you prevent that?

Becky: Erosion controls, basically. Erosion controls until you can establish grass. And I think that's probably one of the reasons that some of the localities want silt fences in the right place. That's probably why some localities really push to make sure that you have that and maintain that, do surprise inspections and stuff like that. So if you're doing a really quick project and you don't have retaining walls involved and stuff like that, it's not really something to worry about.

Cristian: Got it. I know a couple of builders, one in particular down in the Carolina area, who really pushes sod, just so that they can reestablish the yard quickly. So that one, your seed is not being washed away. If you're building in spring or summertime, it's super easy for that to just get wiped out in a regular rainstorm. But just to put the yard back together. One, it looks a lot better. But two, it holds the property together while everything is being reestablished.

Why the Space Around the Pool Can Be Half Your Budget

Cristian: I also find, back to the patio area, people look at the cost of an entire project, and sometimes they get sticker shock. And when you break it down, the bulk of the expense oftentimes is the living space around the pool. It's not really actually the pool itself.

Becky: Yes. It's all the fun areas around it. The pool is like the luxury vehicle that you buy, right? And then the patio space and everything around it is all the really cool stuff that you add on to that really cool luxury.

Cristian: And so just the cost of that alone, I think sometimes can be a hidden factor for people. They don't realize, holy smokes, out of this $150,000 project, $75,000, fifty percent of it, could be just the space around the pool.

Becky: Absolutely. And I think it's important to plan all that space appropriately, because you will find that you're not going to spend as much time in the water as you think. And so you do want to invest in the space around it.

Cristian: So it's a bit eye opening for many to realize that the outdoor living space around their pool costs as much, if not more, than the pool itself. Yet it's where you spend so much of your time, so it might actually be worth it.

If nobody is in charge of a specific drainage plan for your property now that your pool is in the ground, you could have issues. So be certain to identify and assign ownership over that particular task, and get it in writing.

Hidden Cost 5: Public and Private Utilities

Cristian: Now let's talk about what's probably underground, maybe overhead. We're talking about utilities coming into your property. Electric, water, gas, all of the things necessary for your home to actually function. But where do those things actually reside underground? And what happens if, say, the power line is running through exactly where you want your pool to go?

Cristian: Public and private utilities. What are some of the roadblocks you could encounter there?

Becky: So the way it works is you call whatever in your state, it's not always called Miss Utility, I don't think. In some other states it could be called something else. But whatever you call in your state to come and mark the public utilities, they will come and they're only going to mark the public stuff. So if you have an apartment over your garage and you hired an electrician to run power to there or whatever, that's not a public utility. So that line is not going to be marked.

So you can have issues with both. If they don't mark it properly, or let's say you're in the design phase, you wanted the pool exactly in this spot, and you have Miss Utility come out and mark, which is why we try to have it marked before your design appointment.

Cristian: The power line.

Becky: Power line is a big one. Because if the power line is running right where you wanted your pool, if you can't redesign around that, and you have to call your power company to come and move that line, that can take months for them to do, depending on at any given time what they've got going on.

Cristian: And what's the cost for that? I imagine you've seen that a few times.

Becky: Yeah, the cost just depends on the location and how far they have to move it.

Cristian: Okay. So this is before we've even started.

Becky: Yeah, this is before we've even started. This is just to get started.

Cristian: Thousands of dollars just to move a utility where the pool wants to go.

Becky: And heaven help you if it happens to where they didn't mark it properly from the get go, and we come and we find it when we're digging to install the pool. That has happened. That's never fun.

Cristian: Well, they're locating, but they're not locating with absolute precision. They'll say they've got a margin of error, right? I think it's two to three feet on either side of the line. So your guys start digging, and then they get down and it's proceed with caution.

Becky: Yeah, it's time to pull out the shovel and go carefully.

Cristian: But you do discover stuff. I've been on site when private water lines were discovered, and it halts everything until a fix and relocation can be done.

What about the size of the service? Have you seen where people want to build a pool, and whatever the electrical requirements are, their home panel does not have enough room in the box, and they've got to upgrade their service?

Becky: Yeah. So you have to usually upgrade the panel. If you need a service upgrade, that's kind of like, then you have to involve the power company. Sometimes if it's just an electrician installing a bigger panel, that's not going to be as expensive as if you have to do that and have the power company come in. That makes it take a little bit longer and makes it cost a little more.

Cristian: A little more being a few thousand?

Becky: Under five grand, usually.

Trades Your Pool Builder May Not Be Licensed For

Cristian: So you bring up a good point here, and that is that another hidden expense could be having to hire other trades that you guys are not licensed for. You're not licensed for gas, so you're going to have to hire somebody who's licensed for that. What about electrical? You guys licensed for that?

Becky: Yes, we're licensed for electrical, so we don't have that issue.

Cristian: Were you always licensed for electrical? Most pool builders, I'm guessing, are not.

Becky: No, we weren't. But we had a subcontractor who was an electrician who could do any of that. Other stuff that we could price for within our contracts.

Cristian: So the electrical work, is that part of the pool contract, or is that often a separate contract?

Becky: It's usually on the pool contract. It's not in the base package, but it's a line item in the contract, as far as what we're going to be doing. It's always good, no matter what, if you have anybody doing anything, have it line itemed specifically. Like, this is what I'm doing, line by line. And this is what you're responsible for, line by line. To make sure that that's all understood up front.

Cristian: So you're even telling the customer in the contract, we are going to include this for the electrical. We are going to hire somebody and we're going to manage that person. You are going to need to hire a gas contractor.

Becky: If they're getting a gas heater, yeah. Absolutely. All that's discussed up front. It should always be discussed up front.

Cristian: If that's not something that's discussed up front with your pool company, that's a red flag.

Becky: I don't think it's always discussed up front.

Cristian: So public utilities are fairly easy to find, and will be marked ahead of time so that crews can dig with care to begin construction for your pool. And if something has to be moved, just know that it can be done. It's just going to take some time, a bit of planning, and yes, there will be more expense there.

Hidden Cost 6: Fences, Covers, and Safety Barriers

Cristian: This next topic is really not an option at all. We're talking about safety barriers. You may or may not have a fence on your property now. You may or may not be planning for a cover for your pool, or alarms for your back door. Yet one or all of these things might be required for your pool project. And knowing what's needed in your area is absolutely critical.

Becky: It kind of goes within the same theme, but fencing, whatever you're going to do for your permanent barrier around your pool, it's not necessarily the pool, but you have a couple of options, kind of like your patio, to think about. As if we're talking about extra costs that not everybody thinks about up front. With just the pool, national pool code, you have to have a safety barrier. So that can be, not all localities allow just an auto cover, but an auto cover can be one. The right rated one, anyway. Or fencing. And with fencing, there's specific credentials that you have to have with that.

If you have a fence that ties into your house in any way, shape, or form, to where you can walk out of your back door or whatever door and be inside the pool area and have direct access to the pool, you have to have special alarms on the doors. If you have a fence all the way around your pool and you have to walk through a gate to get to your pool, you don't have to have alarms on your house.

Cristian: Have you seen situations where a homeowner had a fence, now they're moving forward to have the pool installed, and then they find out the fence does not meet code?

Becky: Yeah. So sometimes pool owners will have to, I mean there's a couple of options. You can either upgrade or update the fence, or modify the fence to become pool code compliant. Or you can do something else. Like if you're going to install an auto cover on your pool, then you don't have to do anything with it, if your location allows that. There's only like four localities that I know of in Virginia anyway that don't allow that.

Or there's also stuff like safety mesh fencing. Basically an ASTM approved safety barrier. It just anchors right into the patio and you can put it up and take it down. A little cumbersome, but it fills the need.

Cristian: In terms of code compliance.

Becky: Correct. Like if you have a lot of fence and you just don't want to, it might be a less expensive option.

Cristian: So fencing, you could probably bank on a few thousand bucks at least, depending on how much. What about the alarm systems?

Becky: The alarm systems are fairly cheap. You can go to Lowe's or Home Depot or even Amazon. If you just research UL listed pool alarms, they'll come up. You just need to make sure that you keep the packaging or the listing that says, it will say on the box somewhere, UL approved, UL listed, something to that effect, to show the inspector. Because the inspectors are not going to learn or memorize all the ones that are approved.

Cristian: They're looking for that universal label.

Becky: Correct. So that's the biggest thing. It just has to have that label.

Cristian: So barriers are critical. They're not an option. The question is which one, or combination of those, is right for you and would meet the requirements for your local building authorities. Make sure you plan those things and make your decisions accordingly.

Hidden Cost 7: Retaining Walls and Engineering

Cristian: Now this next topic sort of came up in conversation. We weren't even anticipating it being a hidden cost until Becky recalled a particular project that required six of what we're about to discuss.

Becky: Retaining walls, I think, might be the last thing, because that can be a big thing. Making sure that you're within code on the height, and making sure that it's caught from the get go. Because the last thing you want to do is install a pool and realize afterwards, man, we probably really should have had a retaining wall there.

Cristian: And who ultimately decides whether a retaining wall is needed or not?

Becky: If your pool builder is good and they're designing the whole backyard, they should be telling you and catching that you need a retaining wall. And there is a certain height at which it is required and you need to get an engineer involved. I forget what that height is. I don't know if it's different state by state. I know here usually it's over three feet. There might be a couple of localities where it might be two and a half feet, but I think it just depends on the situation and what it's retaining. But the general rule of thumb is three feet. If it's over three feet, you need to have an engineer.

Cristian: Okay.

Becky: You have to at least ask the question. And then that can throw it into, we talked about land disturbance permits earlier. When you're talking about permitting in general, there are a couple of things that are not considered standard for permitting a pool. And that would be when you're trying to disturb more area than what you're allowed to and have to go into land disturbance permits. They can ask you to do all these crazy things. Different planners, different things that are specific to that. And then there's the retaining walls.

When you have a retaining wall over three feet, then the engineering process is one thing that costs money. And then depending on the locality, most localities it's an entirely separate permit or an additional permit.

Cristian: Just for the retaining wall.

Becky: Just for the retaining wall.

Cristian: Wow.

The Six Permit Scenario

Cristian: I think you're actually bringing up a whole other category for this topic. Because think of your most challenging locality that you guys build in. Whichever requires the most. Throw the most elaborate Trey Watford design project in it, the biggest pool with the most things, right? And just rattle off all of the permits that are going to be necessary. Because I wasn't even thinking that you're going to need a multitude of permits sometimes, but you just brought that up. Your builder might say, we'll handle all the permitting, but usually that's standard permitting.

Becky: Standard permitting.

Cristian: But there's time and resources to get all of those things, and that might be a hidden cost in time and dollars. So, most complicated area, with a beautifully complicated design project by Trey. Rattle off all the permits.

Becky: So obviously your building permit, your electrical permit. Retaining wall permit if you have that. There could be a land disturbance permit. Some counties call it a grading permit, some counties call it a land disturbing permit. But it's really a whole thing. And then you can have a barrier permit also. Some counties require a barrier permit, like a permit for your fence. And if you're getting a gas heater, then you also need a plumbing gas permit, which a licensed gas company has to get. We can't get that.

Cristian: Did we account for anything in the RPA or anything like that?

Becky: Usually that's just an additional requirement for what you have to submit, but it still falls under the building permit.

Cristian: All right. So just right there, you've rattled off six different permits to put a pool in which actually may not be a big pool. It might just be a backyard that has a big slope in it. You're putting a small pool in, but you've got to put the pool in, you've got to have electrical hooked up, you want a heater, you want to run a gas heater, you've got to have a retaining wall, you've disturbed the land. All of these things. Just the permits alone could be cumbersome. It could be costly if you have to have engineers involved and things like that.

So Becky, you've just added a whole other category to this piece of content.

Becky: That's not all the time. That doesn't happen all the time. Not for all projects.

Cristian: How many, on average, how many permits does a pool need? Building, electrical, maybe gas?

Becky: They technically call zoning. There's technically a zoning, but it kind of goes hand in hand with the building permit. Like you don't have one without the other. But you usually don't necessarily schedule inspections or anything on it, which some of these other permits that we were talking about, if the county doesn't necessarily, for example, if there's engineering involved for a retaining wall, not every county is able to do the inspections required. So then you have to hire an outside third party engineering inspection agency to come out. And sometimes they want to be there the whole time when you're doing the footing or a specific course of the wall, and that kind of thing. So there's that cost too.

Cristian: I didn't think about that.

Becky: And see, that's why people don't normally think about it until you're having to deal with it.

Cristian: And you would advise, I assume, that you just let your pool builder handle all the permitting, because they're going to have experience wherever you are. They know the local officials.

Becky: It can get frustrating. We have had instances where customers get frustrated. I can think of a recent one, and it's very local. Not Richmond County, but local enough, in Lord's Neck, where the customers just couldn't believe that we were getting so much red tape.

Cristian: It's almost like they thought we were just trying to push it off as long as we could.

Becky: It was not for lack of trying. It was just the permitting process required for their property, their design. Exactly. So they thought they could just go and do it.

Cristian: How much time did the permitting process add to that project overall?

Becky: I think it took probably about six months or so. Just before you could break ground. They had to go in front of a committee and all this. It was just a whole big thing.

Cristian: Jeez.

Cristian: The pool you're planning for your backyard might be small. Heck, your backyard might be small. But depending on where you live and the local requirements, your project may require as many as six or more permits to be properly installed and pass inspections. That is a lot of paperwork, and you're not going to be able to avoid it. Have conversations with your builder and local building authorities so you understand what might be required for your project.

Becky's Advice: Don't Fixate on the Pool

Cristian: Now, as we have conversations with guides, I like to go through the topic and then ask for their general advice at the end of every conversation. Oftentimes, this is where the most value comes out from each guide.

Cristian: So let's bring it all together. What's the best way to make sure that as the homeowner planning for a pool you're not surprised? What's your advice? How do you encourage, or where would you send them? What would you do to help somebody make sure they have all of the things on their list that they need to check on, ask about? What's your general advice?

Becky: Don't fixate just on the pool itself. Look for the whole backyard living space. Ask all the questions about everything that we just talked about. Find somebody that you can trust. Sometimes people who deal in specialty items, that's what they're focused on. And so if it's outside of that, it's like, well, that's not my responsibility. Well, if you know about it, I feel like it is a responsibility. So if you can find a really good pool builder that will give you the information that you need for the whole big picture, that's really somebody that you can trust.

Why Waiting a Year Can Cost You More

Becky: But there's a cost. You wanted to spend that time with your family around the pool, or your friends, and create those memories, and that's delayed. Or when price increases happen at a given point in the year.

Cristian: Wow. Good point.

Becky: So just the process alone pushes you into another price category, because the vendor increased their prices in that time. That's one thing I would say to customers. If you're thinking about delaying getting started, like you know you want to do it, but it's, I don't want it until next year, so I'll just wait until next year to get started. Don't do that. Get all your ducks in a row first, because as you move along you might find something like that that would have cost you a lot of time next year had you waited. And potentially more if you wait.

Cristian: Make your move. The other reason that I really advocate for it is that the clock does not stop for anybody. Whatever memory you wanted to create, whatever you picture that first day around the pool being like, go make it happen. Don't delay that time with your favorite people. Make it happen.

So Becky, thanks for your time.

Your Hidden Cost Checklist

Cristian: None of these topics should be a reason for you to not get a pool. If anything, today's topic should give you a really good list of things to include as part of your planning process.

Be certain that you're getting a copy of the plat for your property, so you know where your pool can reside. And obtain a copy of the as-built plans if you can for your home, for things like private utilities that leave your house and go out to, say, a garage or a shed or something else on your property.

Make sure you identify which person or which entity is going to handle the drainage plan for your project, especially for handling stormwater once the pool is installed. There's nothing worse than having the entire backyard washed out, or washed into your pool, after construction is complete because the drainage was not properly thought out.

As for permits, talk to your builder and local building authorities. Make sure you understand what time will be required, and what resources might be necessary to obtain the required permits for your project.

Ask your contractor for a line by line item in your contract. And any builder who seems to be holding information back like that might not be the right builder for you.

If at any point you're looking for resources to plan the perfect pool for your backyard, you can head over to riverpoolsandspas.com. There you'll find self-guided tools, blog articles, and various guides to help you dot the i's and cross the t's for your project.

I'm Cristian with River Pools. We thank Becky Martinez for taking her time to come out today to serve as a guide. I hope you found it helpful. We'll see you on a future episode, my friends. You've been listening to or watching The Pool Guides Podcast.

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