Concrete, Vinyl, and Fiberglass Pool Fading: Which Fades the Worst?

In a continued effort to point out the pros and cons of all types of swimming pools on this blog, this article will discuss a common issue that can arise with a swimming pool over time--- fading. As you are likely aware, any surface of any product is going to lose some color and brilliance with time. So the main goal here is to give you an accurate expectation of each type of pool, as well as the factors that can dictate color loss.

Vinyl Liner Pools

Without a doubt, vinyl liner pools have more fading and color-loss issues than any other type of swimming pool. Whether it's an above ground or an inground, the liner is produced the same, with an extremely thin colored pattern overlayed on the vinyl material.

There are two main causes of color loss for a liner: Chemicals and Sunlight.  Although the second cannot be deterred or managed (unless you have an automatic cover), chemicals are almost always the downfall to a vinyl liner, namely chlorine.

Because chlorine is a halogen (bleach), it will inevitably over time cause the design on the liner to fade. Combined with the bleaching power of the sun, a liner will often lose serious amounts of color within the 5-7 year mark, and can even eventually turn completely white. Obviously, this number can vary drastically, especially if a homeowner puts too much chorine in their pool or shocks it too often. This is another benefit of a using a salt chlorine generator-because it causes the chlorine production to be consistently low, yet effective, without ‘shocking' the pool and elevating the chorine levels drastically.

Concrete Pools

In the past, most concrete/gunite pools were white plaster, but today more and more consumers are choosing to utilize colored finishes with their concrete pool. In general, these pools look much better than their antiquated white counterparts, but they do surprisingly deal with quite a bit of color loss over time.

Anyone that has had a colored concrete patio will typically recognize the sun's dulling effects over time, which is certainly the case with a concrete swimming pool. The sun light, combined with the chlorine, will typically have a significant effect on colored concrete surfaces in the 8-12 year mark.

Fiberglass Pools

Like concrete, fiberglass pools in the past were mainly ‘white' or ‘baby blue' in color. But today, with the soaring popularity of colored finishes on fiberglass pools, most consumers are choosing to go with darker finishes for their aesthetic value.

Just like vinyl and concrete, fiberglass pool finishes will be affected by the sun but the main question is how much. I've written quite a bit about this on other posts, but there are some fiberglass pool manufacturers that make great color finishes (Leisure), a handful that make utilize average finishes, and then a few that use substandard finishes.

Keep in mind that the finish warranty on a fiberglass pool is often only as good as the disclaimers that comes with it, so make sure you see the written text before you assume that something with a frivolous  ‘20 Year Finish Warranty' has any value.

In general, quality fiberglass finishes will start to experience some fading at the 8-12 year mark whereas the cheap finishes can experience fading within 1-2 years.

Questions about pool finishes and color loss? As always, feel free to leave your comments below.

Fiber Glass Pools Gain More Market Share with Educated Consumers

Having been in this business for almost 10 years now, it's absolutely unbelievable just how much the inground swimming pool market has changed during this time. This trend was made even more evident to me when I recently sat down with a customer in Baltimore Maryland, who, by all intents and purposes, was a self-taught fiber glass pool expert.

For the sake of privacy, I'll refer to the lady as ‘Renee' in this article.

Intense Research

For many months now, Renee has been scouring the internet doing research on swimming pools. Recently, when her and her husband finally decided it was time to actually have a pool installed, they focused even further on what type of pool to choose and with whom they wanted to entrust their backyard. And with such an outstanding amount of research, Renee knew that a fiberglass pool would clearly be her choice for this important investment. And what brought her to this conclusion? Well she thoroughly understood her goals for this swimming pool project would be as follows:

• A pool that would last forever without big expenses down the road
• As little maintenance as possible
• A visual enhancement to her backyard that would be consistent with her home's aesthetics

And because she was looking for a small to medium size, Renee understood overwhelmingly that fiber glass was going to be her choice. At that point, it was just a matter of choosing the right manufacturer and the right builder.

More Consumer Tools

In the past, most consumers didn't necessarily know how to research fiberglass pool manufacturers as well as builders. But today, with more and more educational consumer blogs popping up all over the internet, as well as a significant amount of pool/spa forums designed to promote conversation on the product, consumers are now light years ahead of where they were just a few years ago.

In the past, I would meet with a homeowner and spend most of my time teaching them the differences between Vinyl, Fiberglass, and Concrete Pools. Now, instead of teaching, I'm listening to them tell me what they want, why they want it, and how they want it to be done. And let me tell you, this type of informed consumer really, really gets me excited.

For example, my friend Renee not only knew she wanted a fiberglass pool, but she also knew that she wanted it to be backfilled with gravel, not sand. (In fact, she finds it hilarious that some slower-minded individuals in the pool industry still subscribe to a sand base and backfill). Renee was quite aware of the differences in pool color finishes, materials, and patio options. And finally, Renee was well cognoscente of what manufacturers have shown financial stability, as well as the ones that have experienced financial disaster due to poor business models and management practices.

Seeing the Big Picture

All this being said, Renee was really the exact type of customer I get excited to work with when it comes to a swimming pool project-informed, able to see the big picture, and concerned enough to do all the necessary leg work(research).

But getting back to my original point, the experience with Renee was perfectly analogous to the great movement that is happening within the swimming pool industry. No longer do consumers simply base their decisions on initial price, what their neighbor has, or what their parents had growing up. Yep, today's swimming pool consumer chooses their own path through diligent research and an understanding of the good, the bad, and the ugly of all their possible choices. And by so doing, they are able to, just as Renee did, make a decision that will bring them joy and happiness for many years to come.

Marcus Sheridan, PoolSchool

Can Concrete (Gunite) Pools Float? Crazy Pictures

I was recently sitting with a customer looking to buy a fiberglass swimming pool and the classic question came out.

'Marcus, I was talking with the guy that gave me a quote on a concrete pool and he told me that I didn't want a fiberglass pool because it would float. Is that true?'

I could only sigh upon hearing such a question, as it is one that I figured the concrete pool builders would have gotten weary of using by this point. But instead of expressing my frustrations to this particular homeowner regarding the false words of another salesman, I went on to explain to her the truth, which is as follows:

1. Any vessel, underneath the ground, can float with enough water pressure pushing on it.
2. Of all types of pools, concrete/gunite pools are the most likely to float, as you can see in these photos, all of which are  concrete/gunite pools.
3. Fiberglass pools, although potentially could float if they were empty of water or had no concrete decking bond beam, almost never float.

Hydrostatic Pressure

Hydrostatic pressure, or water pushing upwards, is the reason why pools can pop up out of the ground. To alleviate this problem, the majority of concrete pools are built with a hydrostatic relief valve. In the case of fiberglass, as long as they remain full of water, and have a cantilevered concrete coping edge around them of at least 3' (this is our general rule of thumb at River Pools), then floating should never be an issue.(See Jason's recent article regarding hydostatic pressure and fiberglass pools)

After having literally installed a few hundred pools on the waters of Virginia and Maryland during our time in business, we have not had one of these pools pop-up or 'float' after installation. In fact, the only case that typically leads to hydrostatic issues with a fiberglass pool is when they are drained/emptied of their water, which is an absolute 'no-no' and can cause, instead of the pool floating, the pool's floor to buckle or crack. Such can be repaired, but is obviously not a good thing, which is why fiberglass pools should always remain full.

But remember this the next time a concrete pool salesman has the audacity to use the old 'fiberglass pools float' pitch. In fact, if you're in the process of buying a pool and getting quotes on both concrete and fiberglass, then I suggest having these little pictures handy in case the subject happens to come up. :-)

As, always,happy swimming to everyone and if you have any questions or comments, please don't hesitate to leave your thoughts below.

Marcus Sheridan, PoolSchool

Hydrostatic Pressure and Dewatering Systems for Fiberglass Pools

We are frequently asked questions about the effects of ground water on fiberglass pools.  The short answer is that it has no effect in most cases as long as the pool remains full of water. 

But you may be wondering, “What if the pool is not full of water?”

My response is-- Exactly!

The ground water around a fiberglass pool needs to be removed before the pool shell can be emptied or the water level significantly lowered.   This is not only true with fiberglass pools, but with any vessel…septic tanks, oil drums, gunite pools, and even vinyl liner pools.   Hydrostatic pressure is the term used to describe the force that water exerts on a structure.  Too much hydrostatic pressure = bad news, and like I said earlier this is not a concern with a fiberglass pool unless it is emptied.  The good news is that many fiberglass pools may not require draining for 30 or 40 years down the road.  That’s great, but when the time comes there needs to be a way to get rid of the ground water….which brings us to the subject of dewatering systems. 

Dewatering Systems

3 reasons fiberglass pool contractors should install dewatering systems on every pool:

•         It can take less than 30 minutes
•         It can cost less than $100
•         It can save someone tons of $$$ and heartache

 

Here’s how we do it at River Pools:

After the excavation for the pool is complete and the pool is set and level we drop one end of an 8” PVC pipe to the bottom of the excavation just outside of the deep end of the pool.  The pipe stands up in the hole so the top of it extends above the top of the pool shell.  We cut the top of the pipe off flush with the patio and place a skimmer lid on top of it and....  Viola...Instant access to ground water! If the pool needs to be drained simply remove the lid and drop a pump down in that baby a few days beforehand.  There’s no need for a permanent pump because the ground water doesn’t hurt anything when the pool is full; plus any pump you put down there will probably go bad before you have a chance to use it anyway. 

 

 (The image on the left shows the drainage pipe just after the installation of the pool.  The image below/right shows the skimmer lid that covers the pipe.)

 

Other dewatering systems:

There are other systems out there that work great.  We prefer this method because as I stated earlier it’s cheap and easy, and because it works on the principle of pushing water rather than pulling it.  Other systems utilize suction pumps like a “mud hog” that sit at ground level and draw water up from the lower lying excavation.  This works well, but it is much more effective to push water up from the bottom than pull it from the top.  These surface pumps also have to be much more substantial in size, they have to be primed, and some are gas powered which means they have to be refilled if pumping for days is required.  The system we utilize uses a standard sump pump that connects to a garden hose which is much smaller and more cost effective means to move water.  We also like this method because it pairs well with the use of clean gravel backfill.  The gravel acts as a sieve and allows the water to flow unrestricted up through the bottom of the pipe.  The level of water inside the pipe is naturally the same as the level outside of it.  When using sand backfill it is recommended to put a layer of clean crushed gravel down for the bottom of the pipe to rest on and to drill holes in the side walls of the pipe and cover with a filter fabric to keep sand from washing in.          

The bottom line is that it doesn’t matter what kind of dewatering system is installed around a fiberglass pool as long as it’s installed.  As I stated earlier, ground water around a fiberglass pool is perfectly fine in most cases, but if you’re having a fiberglass pool installed at your home do yourself a huge favor and have your contractor do something to insure that the ground water around you pool can be removed if necessary. 

Pool guys:  What other systems have you seen that work well? I’d love to hear what you’re doing. 

 

Related articles:  7 Deadly Sins of Fiberglass Pool Installations

Anthony Sylvan Accepts Reality, Does a 180 and Decides to Embrace Fiberglass Pools

 

Anthony Sylvan Accepts Reality, Does a 180 and Decides to Embrace Fiberglass Pools

Ahhhh, isn't it funny how a bad economy forces businesses to be honest with every component of their company? Such was the case recently as Anthony Sylvan Pools, the second largest installer of inground concrete pools in the United States, decided to integrate fiberglass swimming pool construction into their business model. Obviously, I don't fault Sylvan for doing this. In fact, I'm just surprised they were living in denial for these past 10 years. But as I've already mentioned, slower sales will certainly cause a business to accept the reality and trends within the marketplace. In their new fiberglass pool website, Sylvan states:

  "Anthony & Sylvan Pools has built quality in-ground swimming pools and spas throughout the United States for over 60 years. Not only do we offer concrete pools, but many of our markets can also take advantage of beautiful fiberglass pools.

Fiberglass pools are durable, long-lasting and typically are installed much faster than concrete swimming pools. Fiberglass pools come in a variety of shapes and sizes.

Anthony & Sylvan Pools builds inground fiberglass pools in the following areas: Virginia Beach, Philadelphia, New Jersey, New York, Atlanta Georgia and Charlotte North Carolina."

What makes me snicker about Sylvan's sudden appreciation for fiberglass is that for many years they have, or at least their sales people have, talked rather poorly of fiberglass swimming pools. After having gone head to head with an Anthony Sylvan salesperson at least 100 times in the past 9 years, I've heard some hilarious statements, with the top 3 being:

• 1. You don't want fiberglass, it will pop out of the ground! (still my all time favorite)
• 2. You don't really have a pool unless it's concrete.
• 3. Fiberglass pools aren't really pools. (huh????)

So, considering Anthony Sylvan subscribes to this blog(Hi guys!), I have an open question and invitation for them:

Will you now admit that fiberglass pools are the wave of the future for the residential pool industry in the United States(as they already are in Australia)? And what took you so long?? Please feel free to leave your comments below..........

 

As always, happy swimming everyone!!

 

Marcus Sheridan, http://www.poolschool.us/

Custom Pools vs Fiberglass Pools: Which is Right For You?

 

Custom Pools vs. Fiberglass Pools: Which is Right for You?

I recently worked with a customer who was trying to decide between a concrete pool and a fiberglass pool. After doing quite a bit of research he told me that fiberglass, in terms of its longevity and low maintenance, would likely suit his needs the best. But when it came time for him to choose what type of pool he would go with, he didn't follow his gut instinct. In fact, when I asked him what his final decision was, he simply responded by saying, "I've decided to go with a custom pool."

"Say, what??" was the thought that went through my mind.

Yep, he was going with a 'Custom Pool'.

Heck, he didn't even say words like concrete or gunnite or anything of that nature. The only thing he wanted to call it was a Custom Pool.

The experience reminded me of something I see on occasion in the swimming pool industry. Essentially, this gentleman was caught up in the linguistics of a good salesman. What do I mean by this? Well here are some of the best one-liners I hear from concrete/gunnite pool salespersons:

                "You really don't own a pool unless it's concrete."

                "The only way you truly have a custom pool is if it's concrete."

                "You don't possibly want a pre-fab pool do you??"

                "All your neighbors own concrete, don't you think it would look odd if you went with a fiberglass pool?"

I'll stop with these but believe me when I say I've heard hundreds of variations of such statements. But when it comes to a salesperson trying to convince a homeowner that fiberglass is not a 'custom pool', well, that's just plain ridiculous. Now granted, with fiberglass one cannot change the size and shape of a particular design. This much is true. But after having personally assisted over 2000 customers who were trying to find a fiberglass pool to fit their needs, less than 10% of these consumers were unable to find a shape or size that didn't fit their needs and wants, especially with the fact that just about every fiberglass pool comes with multiple benches, ledges, seating, etc. But let's also consider the other ways in which fiberglass pools can be customized:

• 1. They typically come in a variety of color finishes. In fact, their colors are much more vibrant than your standard concrete pool color finishes.
• 2. Tile can be used anywhere on a fiberglass pool. Whether it's on the waterline or inlays and mosaics in the steps and seats, tiles can completely change a fiberglass pool to fit an individual's likes and personality.
• 3. The same patios that are available for concrete/gunnite pools are available with fiberglass. Whether it's stamped concrete, brick pavers, coping stones, flagstones, etc; all can be used to customize your fiberglass swimming pool.
• 4. Just like patio options, a fiberglass pool can be built with a huge array of water features. From simple deck-jets to natural waterfalls, all are available with a fiberglass pool.

Hopefully you can see my point here. The fact is fiberglass pools are COMPLETELY CUSTOMIZABLE. If this wasn't the case, and if fiberglass pools weren't the wave of the future in the swimming pool industry, such massive concrete pool companies as Anthony Sylvan Pools, which have notoriously spoken down regarding fiberglass, would not be now working so hard to sell and install fiberglass pools themselves.

So I return to the original question:

"Custom vs Fiberglass Pools: Which is right for you?"

And I'll finish with this simple answer:

"That's a trick question, as the two are one in the same!! :-)"

 

By Marcus Sheridan, http://www.poolschool.us/

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Gunite Pools versus Fiberglass Pools: Which Looks Nicer?

 

Gunite Pools versus Fiberglass Pools: Which Looks Nicer?

Because fiberglass pools in America started out as plain white shells without any tiling, colored finishes, and cantilevered decking, they were stigmatized with the ‘bathtub' label, which is why many consumers still to this day mistakenly perceive concrete/gunite pools to be a much more aesthetically pleasing product.  But such a perception is not true throughout the world. Let me give you an example.

The first time I spoke with the Australian owners of Leisure Fiberglass Pools I told them that I was quite impressed with the look and luster of their pools. In fact, my statement to Paul Pusztay, one of their owners, went something like this: "I really like what you've done with your pools. With their deep, rich colors, unique seating patterns, and classy designs, they will compete incredibly well aesthetically against concrete pools."

Upon hearing this statement, Pusztay gave me an odd look/grimace and said something like, "What do ye mean mate?"

"I mean you've got a pretty pool, that's what I mean. Many uniformed people here in America feel like fiberglass pools have a second rate look about them" I said.

"Ahh, now I see your point" said Pusztay. "I was just a little confused because in Australia it's a totally different viewpoint. There, the concrete pool builders are trying to make their pools look more like fiberglass. The last thing we want to do at Leisure is look more like concrete."

And as these words started to sink in, it all started to make sense- I knew that Australia was about 20 years ahead of the American market with the fiberglass pool industry, but I had no idea that the perceptions of two nations regarding swimming pools could be so very different, which explains why resendential fiberglass pools outsell residential concrete pools in the Australia.

 But back to my original question: Which pool looks better?

Well how about I answer this in simple terms- Both gunite and fiberglass pools can look boring or fantastic, but the look of the project will really come down to the following items.

• 1. Decking/Patio Around the pool
• 2. Landscaping other than decking
• 3. Color of the pool
• 4. Shape of the pool

Although there are certainly more factors, those are what I consider to be the most important 4 components to your pool's appearance. Therefore, the actual answer to the question is that it all depends on these variables. There really is no clear cut winner.

So when will fiberglass catch up to gunite/concrete here in the United States? Well let me just say that out of the 80 or so fiberglass pools our company will install this year, more than 50 of the customers were ONLY looking for fiberglass. They were educated, they were informed, and they also knew that fiberglass did not have any aesthetic drawbacks versus gunite. In fact, just like those wonderful people from ‘Down Under', many preferred the deep and rich colors that fiberglass had to offer.

So to close my little article, I'd like to make a prediction. Here it is:

Within the next 10 years, fiberglass pools will have a larger share of the inground swimming pool market than concrete/gunite pools.

Yep, that's what I believe and it's also what has already happened in Australia, so it only makes sense that it will happen here in the United States. But, as always, time will tell. Time will tell.....

 

By Marcus Sheridan, Co owner of River Pools and Spas and author of the popular eBook: "How to Buy a Fiberglass Pool the Right Way, From the Right Company, at the Right Price."

 

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Concrete Pools Vs Fiberglass Pools: The Crazy Buying Decisions People Will Make

 

Concrete Pools Versus Fiberglass Pools....The Debate Continues

By Marcus Sheridan, http://www.poolschool.us/

 

Ok, so this is one of those articles where some readers might argue that I'm extremely biased because I sell fiberglass pools and so therefore the points herein aren't relevant. Frankly though, I pride myself in being one of the few ‘pool guys' who will often times recommend to a shopper that they choose another product other than my own. Let me give you an example.

I recently had a customer who was very interested in having a fiberglass pool installed. His neighbor had just gotten a fiberglass pool from our company and spoke very, very highly of the product. So the potential client called me up and said something to the nature of, "I really like fiberglass pools, but I have one really big concern." I asked him what his concern was and he said, "I must have two things with my inground pool. I must have a diving board and I must have a very large play area for my kids. Do you have a pool that will fit this need?" Many fiberglass pool contractors would try to give some type of ‘yes' answer to such a question but without any reservation on my part, I gave this customer a succinct ‘No'.

 You see, when it comes down to it, any normal pool with a deep end is going to have a small play area. This is because the entire middle portion of the pool will be a hard-slope, allowing the final third of the pool to be a diving well depth. The only exception to this rule would be something like an ‘L' shaped pool, where there are essentially two unique bodies of water. Because ‘L' pools are very large and wider than 16', they are not available in fiberglass, which brings me back to the original reason I told this customer that I was sorry but we didn't have anything to fit his needs. In my opinion, this is simply just being honest with a customer. The last thing I'd want to do is install a pool for someone and have them tell me they were disappointed with a recommendation I had made them. The customer in this example was unique. He actually understood how much more maintenance he'd have with a concrete pool and he knew he'd have some serious long term repair costs. Notwithstanding, he also was absolutely sure that a large shallow area, as well as a diving well, were the most important requisites of his pool project. And in such a case as this one, I had no choice but to recommend he choose a concrete pool.

The previous example was a very unique one though as most customers(about 90% of the market in my estimation), are looking for a pool design available in a fiberglass size(16'x44' or less). But having literally worked with thousands of customers in their efforts to choose the right pool from the right company, I will never cease to be amazed with some of the incredibly illogical reasons people will choose a concrete pool over a fiberglass pool. So here is my top five list:

• 1. "Everyone in my neighborhood has a concrete pool.."

So my question is this. If everyone in your neighborhood had a rotary phone, would you have one too?? Seriously, such a statement makes me smack my forehead.  Again, choosing a concrete pool over fiberglass for a size reason is one thing, but going with it because it's what the neighbors did????

• 2. " It's what I grew up with.."

Again, another major head-scratcher. I can appreciate someone having fond memories of their pool growing up, but to miss out on the benefits of fiberglass simply because one is not used to it would be like saying, "I just don't think I want a plasma TV. I grew up with black and white...."

• 3. "I'm worried it won't look like a pool.."

 

I can understand how people may have made such a statement 10 years ago when all fiberglass pools were white and all decking was non-cantilevered. But with the advent of colored finishes and beautiful patios, most fiberglass pools would give the best concrete pool a run for their money. This is also why when customers go to the photo page on our website they think we install concrete pools.

 

• 4. "I'm worried it won't feel like a normal pool...."

Again, I just have a really hard time even beginning to understand this statement. For our customers here in Virginia and Maryland, many are introduced to fiberglass pools when they go on vacation to places like Myrtle Beach and Nags Head. And do you know how many of these people have ever said to me, "Marc, I used a fiberglass pool on vacation and I didn't like it because it didn't ‘feel' like a pool."? You guessed it, none.

• 5. "I'm going with a concrete pool over fiberglass because the concrete pool costs a little less."

 

I've written various articles regarding this statement, but the simple reality is that fiberglass pools will almost ALWAYS cost less than a concrete pool over the course of the pool's lifetime. This is because the chemical costs on a yearly basis, and the resurfacing costs (average of 10 years with white plaster) will undoubtedly more than make up for a few thousand dollars on the front end.

To close this article, I want to reiterate my point that there are certainly times when concrete is the better solution for a pool shopper. Just don't let the reason for such a decision be based on one of the five listed above;-)

How Much Can a Mistake Cost on a Swimming Pool Purchase?

 By Jim Spiess, www.riverpoolsandspas.com

 

There are many factors to consider when purchasing a swimming pool. First- Is the type of pool you will purchase, will it be an above ground pool, or an in ground pool? Let's look at above ground pools first.

How much will our above ground pool cost, and if it is an expensive pool does that guarantee quality and durability? Just because an above ground pool is expensive does not guarantee anything, for that matter most of your more expensive above ground pools are generally cheap pools that will cost you upwards to ten thousand dollars, and only last a few years. Beware of companies that advertise on television and show a beautiful pool with a ridiculously low price. If it looks too be true it probably is. These companies will do the same with magazine ads, only to do a bait and switch when they show up. There are many good above ground pools out there, Artesian Pools and Strong Pools make great pools, but beware of the riser pool made by Strong Pools, because it has its issues. These two manufactures have a difference of about one thousand dollars in their price; both have great warranties, and will not only last for many years of enjoyment, but will keep their look over the years. How many times have you seen an above ground pool get put up in the neighborhood and a year or two later they look twenty years old? An Artesian 24 foot round pool should cost you in the neighborhood of five thousand dollars with installation, the Strong Pool would be about one thousand more. How much can you lose on an above ground pool purchase? Up to ten thousand dollars if you make a bad choice. It is not a good idea to purchase an aluminum deck for an above ground pool. I recommend a wood deck or a composite deck, which is much more attractive, more durable, and will probably cost less too.

Now let's take a look at inground pools. Here we have really five types of pools to choose from: There is the natural pool which is filtered with plants and can even have fish in them, with a structure that is basically a vinyl liner pool. Initial cost can vary upon plants, type of fish, and stone work, but will generally run around thirty thousand. This is a great pool if you are more interested in a pond than a pool. Personally, I would not spend much on it because vinyl liners have a limited life to them, and it can be a mess to replace the liner on a large pond with vegetation, rocks, and fish. The cost is not that cheap because of the designing, planting, installation, and more, and your loss could be up to ten thousand after replacing liner and surroundings.

Second we have the vinyl liner pool. Its initial pool cost is around $25,000, and it falls into the category of a temporary pool. Liners today generally last between five to ten years, depending on how your pool was installed. If the pool did not have an over-dig and was put in exactly to specifications than that will increase the life of the liner. The problem is a lot of vinyl liner pool companies put the pools in fast and do a slight over-dig to make sure they do not get wrinkles in the liner. This causes the vinyl liner to get stretched and it has now had years taken off the life of the liner. Also, if the pool is put in out of square, it will shorten the life of the liner. We have people who call us to replace the vinyl liner in their pool, and they want to give us the spec sheet for the liner that came with the pool. We never go by that. We have to  measure the pool ourselves and it has not once come up to the measurements on the spec sheet of the customer. Replacing a vinyl liner will cost you between four thousand to six thousand dollars with water. This is also what will bring the value of your home down when you go to sell it. The problem with swimming pools and home sales is that three red flags come up when someone sees a pool. 1. How much maintenance is the pool going to take? 2. How much will it cost me to run that pool each year? 3. What are my future expenses on that pool? With vinyl, you have fairly high maintenance, more cost in chemicals with the pool, and future expenses. Home value can even go down ten to twenty thousand.

Third we have gunite pools or concrete pools. This is a permanent pool, which is high maintenance, high chemical cost, and elevated electrical costs. This pool will have to be resurfaced on average every 10 years, and that can cost from ten to fifteen thousand dollars depending on the type of surface. The price of gunite pools depends on the size and scope of the work, although there are large companies out there that are selling them very cheap because of the economy. My feelings on this is if you have thousands of pools that you have put in and you kept your customers happy then you should not have to cut your cost on your pools so drastically. Most reputable gunite company's pools range around thirty five to fifty thousand dollars. I would beware of the companies that are offering the same pool for ten thousand less. These pools can bring the value of your home down too, usually less than a vinyl pool, around five to ten thousand dollars. Your loss can be as much as twenty five thousand if resurfaced twice during your ownership.

Fourth we have the fiberglass pool wall with a concrete bottom. Initial cost around twenty to twenty five thousand. This pool is still a high maintenance pool due to the concrete bottom, and a lot of times I have seen these pools put in and the bottom painted with a waterproof paint, this can lead to disaster. The life of these pools is determined by the installer, but the bottom of the pool will need resurfacing at a cost of around five thousand dollars. The pool tends to look cheap and will take away from the value of your home, around five to ten thousand dollars. Your loss is around ten to fifteen thousand dollars.

Last we have fiberglass pools. There initial cost is around thirty five to fifty thousand dollars, around the same as a good reputable concrete pool installer. Maintenance is low, operation cost is low, and future cost is very low. Adds value to your home because of all the above. Your gain is extra money when you sell your home, and years of enjoyment without all the work and headaches. But going with the wrong manufacturer, or picking the wrong company, because you are basing your decision on price can cost you more than you save. For instance the pool you have chosen appears to be the same, but the cost difference between the two companies is around five thousand. Well, you could end up the loser when the concrete does not turn out right or the pool was installed improperly, etc. There are many things that could go wrong that will cost you more than the five thousand you saved. Maybe you picked the wrong manufacturer and save five to ten thousand and then find out that you really lost around twenty five thousand and now have a non functioning pool in your backyard. Pool choices are tough decisions, you are spending a lot of money, the last thing you want to do is make a mistake that will cost you even more. For more information on fiberglass pool cost go to http://www.riverpoolsandspas.com/ or http://www.poolschool.us/

Cheap Concrete Pools, the Economy, and Swimming Pool Buying Mistakes

 By Marcus Sheridan www.PoolSchool.us

Just this past week I got an email from a customer I had quoted a 16x40 fiberglass pool to. This is what it said: "Hello Marc, I just wanted you to know that we've decided to go with a 20x40 concrete pool. The price difference of 10k was just too much to overlook. Thank you for your time."......Obviously, such emails are always disappointing to read, but what's worse is that this was a person that wanted a low maintenance swimming pool that would last for many years without any major repairs down the road. Unfortunately though, what he did was allow for an ‘initial' saving of 10k to flush his swimming pool desires down the toilet. I'll talk more about this gentleman later, but I first want to talk about the state of the inground swimming pool industry.

As this summer has progressed and I've been able to watch and analyze the inground swimming pool market, I've noticed a few disturbing trends. These trends stem from the economic slowdown that we've all been affected by since last year. In times such as these, many businesses gain market share, while others suffer greatly. In the same light, many customers benefit from lower pricing, while others fall prey to poor decisions due to lower budgets.

In the past, concrete, or gunite pools as they're also called, were almost always more expensive or at least priced about the same initially as fiberglass pools. This makes sense considering the construction of a concrete pool is so much more intensive than a fiberglass pool. Because the two products were so evenly priced, pool consumers were left to choose which pool fits their needs the best without initial price being a major factor in the decision. This year though, as pool companies are struggling to pay their bills and support their infrastructures, I've been witness to some of the lowest prices offered on concrete pool installations in over 10 years. For example, on large pools, I'm finding that most concrete pools come in 5-10k less than a fiberglass pool. Frankly, the company I've seen with the most ridiculously low pricing is Anthony Sylvan. Sylvan has long been one of the largest concrete pool companies in the country. In the past, they seemed not so focused on having the lowest price but it appears their business model has changed. I now find their prices are usually the lowest of any concrete pool quote a customer of mine may receive. What bothers me though is that it appears their salesmen, as well as other, are so concerned about having a low package price that they are hurting the consumer in the long-run.  An example of this would be their pool finishes/surfaces. In the past, Sylvan actively promoted such high quality pool surfaces as Pebble Tec and others, but they now appear to be installing many more pools with plain white plaster. Considering the national average for a replaster on an inground concrete pool (white plaster) is about 10 years, most consumers have no idea that they'll be shelling out an additional 8-12k minimum only a decade after install. When one compounds this number over the course of 20-30 years, the cost to the homeowner is even worse. This doesn't even account for the fact that most pool owners are now using salt chlorinators with their swimming pools, a technology of which I am a huge fan of but has been shown to be more abrasive on concrete pool surfaces than regular chlorine.  This is also why I always recommend to my clients that decide to go with a concrete/gunite pool that they should go with a more permanent surface like Pebble Tec. You see, I always base decisions and recommendations on what is the best for the long-term, and not for the initial moment (price). What good does it does to save a few thousand dollars upfront on a swimming pool purchase if these savings will cost you thousands and thousands more in the long run??

Let's look at two examples of this. A pool shopper is torn between fiberglass and concrete. The cost for their 16x40 fiberglass pool, with patio, options, electric, etc is 55k. They've also been quoted a white plaster concrete pool (20x40) for the same package at a price of 45k. Because the 10k ‘is just too much too overlook' they go concrete. That same consumer ends up spending  $12,000 11 years later on the resurfacing of their pool after the roughness of the surface and water chemistry become just too much to bear. At this point, they are already regretting their near-sighted initial decision, but they are stuck with what they have and hope the next surface does better. Unfortunately, they again deal with the same problems over the next 12 years and this time the resurface costs them another 14k. By this point they are left with the decision to fill the pool in or spend the money, and at the pleads of their 5 grandchildren they decide to spend the money.....Now I submit this question: Did this person end up saving any money at all in the long run? Well we all know the answer is a resounding ‘NO', and in fact the consumer spent about $15,000 more over the course of 23 years then they would have had they invested more up front for a high quality fiberglass pool(I say high quality here because there are unfortunately a few not-so-high quality fiberglass pools in the industry today)....In another scenario, that same customer could have gone ahead and spent 4-8k more initially to go with a surface like Pebble Tec and would have had a surface that lasted about twice as long white plaster. Again, this would have been the wiser decision.

On a side note, I also feel the need to mention here my concern for companies that have priced their pools so low that they often end up cutting corners to turn a profit. All companies must build in enough margins in the pool pricing to fix any potential mistakes. The reality of any industry, whether it is pools, homes, retailers, etc is that those who have the cheapest prices will never be able to give the best service. That's just how it works, and it has been that way since the beginning of time.

So to close my thoughts here I do hope that the customer who went with the white-plaster concrete pool at the beginning of this article finds happiness with their decision in the long run. But at the same rate, I also wish he hadn't have mentioned he saved $10,000, which, as we've clearly demonstrated, is an initial justification for a long term expensive and costly mistake.